Pushing Heat

[Desroth 145]

Howdy yall, just got back from a vacation and thought about something that bothered me during my trip. This has been on my mind for a while but this past weekend really cemented it: pushing heat on the bowl.

 

I had this issue over the weekend while enjoying some AF Energy Drink (delicious with a can of ginger ale). If I pop two titaniums and a cover the bowl is the surface of the sun (if it is my knock off phunnel), if I use three and no cover it takes forever to get going and tends to burn. If I use my large egyptian I start with three to get the bowl going, but if I dream of using four coals or three and a cover it is once again surface of the sun hot. If I drop down to two and a cover on the egyptian there simply is not enough heat for the bowl which is a mystery because the air coming out to the top of my cover when I am not drawing is akin to standing next to a lit fireplace.

 

To finalize my question: How are you peeps pushing three, four, even 5+ coals at a time on some of these bowls and not having any issues? Is there something I am missing with my sessions that I could correct? I could try getting ice attachments but I feel that only masks the source of the problem. 

 

Setup:

Deezer phunnel or clay handmade egyptian

Starbuzz Unicus

Water about 3/4 an inch over the downstem, no diffuser

AF Energy Drink, but really I have this issue with most 250g+ boxes of AF, the 50g boxes take heat like A MF champ and keep going.

Titanium Coals.

HD Aluminum Foil

 

 

P.S.: I know most peeps are going to say just get a Kaloud Lotus, I am working on that but for now all I got is HD foil and a poker. 

[chernobyl 1,136]

That is pretty interesting because I have a Deezer phunnel as well and it has always worked great with only using two coals and a cover. Have you tried using different coals? Not all of them are made the same and will produce different amounts of heat. 

[Desroth 145]

I used to use Mazyas, then Haze cubes, and now I have moved to Titaniums. The cubes I could understand putting out tremendous heat under a cover because of their size, but the flats are just little blast furnaces too.

 

 

That is pretty interesting because I have a Deezer phunnel as well and it has always worked great with only using two coals and a cover. Have you tried using different coals? Not all of them are made the same and will produce different amounts of heat. 

 

When do you typically start the cover? Do you throw it on right from the start or do you let the bowl heat up first before dropping it on? 

[chernobyl 1,136]

I used to use Mazyas, then Haze cubes, and now I have moved to Titaniums. The cubes I could understand putting out tremendous heat under a cover because of their size, but the flats are just little blast furnaces too.

When do you typically start the cover? Do you throw it on right from the start or do you let the bowl heat up first before dropping it on?

Hmm interesting.

I throw it on immediately to kick start the bowl warming up. Then take it off as needed.

[Desroth 145]

That is basically what I do when managing two coals. With two and the cover it chugs along relatively well but I start hitting a ceiling with three (two flat one standing up). Over the weekend I played with three coals standing up and a cover, and that put in some work. 

[dd0723 1,970]

That is basically what I do when managing two coals. With two and the cover it chugs along relatively well but I start hitting a ceiling with three (two flat one standing up). Over the weekend I played with three coals standing up and a cover, and that put in some work. 

 

What kind of foil do you use? heavy duty? single layer or doubled? I've found that affects the heat and the smoke output for me. 

 

Personally I like my coals super hot and there are some out there that don't give me what I want. I'm happy with coco jamra's and al father because I put them on and don't have to worry about them, but different coals require different love. 

No matter what coals I'm using at the moment, I always throw on the wind cover to get them started, then I put it back on at about half way through the session when I flip the coals so the bowl stays hot. 

With starlight coals I manage the heat with the wind cover but usually when I use two coals I leave the wind cover on all session long. When I use 3 coals then I do the steps outline above. 

With the Exotica finger coals I never need more than two coals and depending on what I'm smoking I'll either leave the cover on for shisha like Naklha, or take it off for more heat sensitive and modern flavors like from Al Fakher and Ayam Zayam. 

[TheEightyFour 1,199]

I almost never use three coals except on my Harmony bowl (because it's so large) or with the Kaloud Lotus.

 

There are many factors that contribute to how many coals you use:

• What type of coal you use - some burn hotter, and some burn cooler.  When I tried out Social Smoke's natural coals, they were significantly cooler, so I often had to use one more.
• How you place your coals - some people like to "stonehenge" them (placing them on their side).  It gives a longer session (because you have more heat available, if you consider it as a quantity), but requires more maintenance.
• What kind of bowl you're using - poorly-designed bowls hold less heat, whereas well-designed bowls are made to take heat and keep it in.
• What kind of tobacco you're smoking - certain tobaccos, steam stones, etc. respond better to lots of heat, whereas others are very sensitive.
• What kind of foil, and how much of it, you use - high-density/heavy duty foil is thicker than regular foil.  two or three sheets of standard foil is about the same thickness as HD foil.  some people double-up even HD foil.
• Whether you're using a Lotus, a wind cover, etc. - If you're using something like the Kaloud Lotus, it has a thick base, which keeps in heat, but doesn't transfer as well as foil, because when heat transfers from one thing to another, some energy (heat) is lost in the process.  However, because of the thickness and density, it'll maintain that energy (heat) level longer.  Using a wind cover will trap in heat, and, arguably, provides a more optimum level of oxygen to the coals, meaning you'll need less heat overall.
• How high you pack your tobacco - if you push the limits of what the bowl can hold, less heat is required because you run the risk of burning it if you add too much.  Packing too low requires a tremendous amount of heat because, at that point, you're relying on the kept heat of the bowl to vaporize the tobacco, nearly eliminating any direct heat.
• What kind of hookah you use - smaller hookahs have less distance between the coals and your mouth, meaning there is less time for it to cool in the water or in the base.  Larger hookahs require more draw, but often provide a cooler smoking experience, which sometimes masks the tobacco burning.  A larger hookah does not mean you can apply more heat, but does mean that applying slightly too much heat won't affect your session as much.
• And, finally, personal preference.  Some people like a hotter session.  Some people like it to barely be vaporized.  It all depends on what you like.

All those factors in play, find what works for you.  Try different coals if you can't find a good balance with the ones you're using, or try putting them more on the edge of the bowl (instead of directly over the tobacco).

 

But don't add extra coals for a pissing contest.  People online like to brag about their achievements, or superficially inflate them.  That's one thing you won't find much of on Hookah.org.  Most of us are about getting a great session, not about getting bro points and bragging rights.

 

And, finally, the Kaloud Lotus IS a really nice device, and it has it's benefits, but I would actually encourage you to work out your heat management issues before moving on to something like that.  Most people with the Lotus (myself included) don't use it every session either.  I maybe use mine once every week or two (and I smoke probably 5-6 days a week normally).  But it's your call.  Good luck, and if you have any other questions, don't hesitate to reply - we're all here to help.

[dd0723 1,970]

I almost never use three coals except on my Harmony bowl (because it's so large) or with the Kaloud Lotus.

 

There are many factors that contribute to how many coals you use:

• What type of coal you use - some burn hotter, and some burn cooler.  When I tried out Social Smoke's natural coals, they were significantly cooler, so I often had to use one more.
• How you place your coals - some people like to "stonehenge" them (placing them on their side).  It gives a longer session (because you have more heat available, if you consider it as a quantity), but requires more maintenance.
• What kind of bowl you're using - poorly-designed bowls hold less heat, whereas well-designed bowls are made to take heat and keep it in.
• What kind of tobacco you're smoking - certain tobaccos, steam stones, etc. respond better to lots of heat, whereas others are very sensitive.
• What kind of foil, and how much of it, you use - high-density/heavy duty foil is thicker than regular foil.  two or three sheets of standard foil is about the same thickness as HD foil.  some people double-up even HD foil.
• Whether you're using a Lotus, a wind cover, etc. - If you're using something like the Kaloud Lotus, it has a thick base, which keeps in heat, but doesn't transfer as well as foil, because when heat transfers from one thing to another, some energy (heat) is lost in the process.  However, because of the thickness and density, it'll maintain that energy (heat) level longer.  Using a wind cover will trap in heat, and, arguably, provides a more optimum level of oxygen to the coals, meaning you'll need less heat overall.
• How high you pack your tobacco - if you push the limits of what the bowl can hold, less heat is required because you run the risk of burning it if you add too much.  Packing too low requires a tremendous amount of heat because, at that point, you're relying on the kept heat of the bowl to vaporize the tobacco, nearly eliminating any direct heat.
• What kind of hookah you use - smaller hookahs have less distance between the coals and your mouth, meaning there is less time for it to cool in the water or in the base.  Larger hookahs require more draw, but often provide a cooler smoking experience, which sometimes masks the tobacco burning.  A larger hookah does not mean you can apply more heat, but does mean that applying slightly too much heat won't affect your session as much.
• And, finally, personal preference.  Some people like a hotter session.  Some people like it to barely be vaporized.  It all depends on what you like.

All those factors in play, find what works for you.  Try different coals if you can't find a good balance with the ones you're using, or try putting them more on the edge of the bowl (instead of directly over the tobacco).

 

But don't add extra coals for a pissing contest.  People online like to brag about their achievements, or superficially inflate them.  That's one thing you won't find much of on Hookah.org.  Most of us are about getting a great session, not about getting bro points and bragging rights.

 

And, finally, the Kaloud Lotus IS a really nice device, and it has it's benefits, but I would actually encourage you to work out your heat management issues before moving on to something like that.  Most people with the Lotus (myself included) don't use it every session either.  I maybe use mine once every week or two (and I smoke probably 5-6 days a week normally).  But it's your call.  Good luck, and if you have any other questions, don't hesitate to reply - we're all here to help.

 

Exactly everything that Doug said.     

[Desroth 145]

Thanks for input guys! In a short while I will also have a hand made flavor saver for use as well which should aid in the heat department (taking the coals up off the foil directly). I think I may also just start springing for slightly more expensive brands, my go to is AF because it is dirt cheap for 250g but my local shops are hit and miss on keeping fresher stocks which is probably why I run into issues with the larger containers. Might just pony up a few bucks more and smoke Haze and Fumari all the time.

[chernobyl 1,136]

Thanks for input guys! In a short while I will also have a hand made flavor saver for use as well which should aid in the heat department (taking the coals up off the foil directly). I think I may also just start springing for slightly more expensive brands, my go to is AF because it is dirt cheap for 250g but my local shops are hit and miss on keeping fresher stocks which is probably why I run into issues with the larger containers. Might just pony up a few bucks more and smoke Haze and Fumari all the time.

If your local shops have it Nakhla should be even cheaper than AF. 

[Desroth 145]

Yeah, they carry it, but they only carry Double Apple. I love me some Nak DA but not all the time.

[chernobyl 1,136]

Yeah, they carry it, but they only carry Double Apple. I love me some Nak DA but not all the time.

Doesn't hurt to ask them if they will carry more. The local shops near me love getting advice on what to carry

[Desroth 145]

Not to stray off the topic: What other flavors are good from Nak? I have heard some good things about their Mint lines, but I have never personally tried anything other than their double apple.

 

Back on topic: When I smoke the Nak double apple I can really pile on the heat. I know that Nak is super thirsty for it and that the traditional style of smoking Nak is to put the coals right into the tobacco in the bowl. I am going to try that out like HJ and others have done once I have my flavor saver, it looks to be intense.

[chernobyl 1,136]

Not to stray off the topic: What other flavors are good from Nak? I have heard some good things about their Mint lines, but I have never personally tried anything other than their double apple.

Back on topic: When I smoke the Nak double apple I can really pile on the heat. I know that Nak is super thirsty for it and that the traditional style of smoking Nak is to put the coals right into the tobacco in the bowl. I am going to try that out like HJ and others have done once I have my flavor saver, it looks to be intense.

On this forum there is no such thing as topic really, you'll find we go off on tangents quite easily. Most flavors from their Mizo line are really good. Definitely their Ice line. If you like a strong mint you can't go wrong with Mizo mint.

[TheEightyFour 1,199]

Not to stray off the topic: What other flavors are good from Nak? I have heard some good things about their Mint lines, but I have never personally tried anything other than their double apple.

 

Back on topic: When I smoke the Nak double apple I can really pile on the heat. I know that Nak is super thirsty for it and that the traditional style of smoking Nak is to put the coals right into the tobacco in the bowl. I am going to try that out like HJ and others have done once I have my flavor saver, it looks to be intense.

 

Mizo Mint is the bomb.  Their strawberry is really great too.  I like a 50/50 mix of the two.

 

AF is NOT a bad brand.  It's not "cheap tobacco."  Honestly, it's more "authentic" than Haze or Fumari, if that's what you're looking for.  In this industry, price does not necessarily justify quality.  Some crazy expensive shishas have come out that are just crap, and Nak is still, IMO, one of the best, and it's the cheapest out there.  But try out other stuff, and, again, don't worry about piling on heat - work on getting a good quality smoke instead.

 

Also, the "traditional" style of smoking tobacco without foil is a roux.  There's no such thing, just people trying to be macho.  One of Paul's videos goes on about this topic (I believe it's either his video on SCAB or on Zaghloul/black tobacco).  But, again, if that's what you want to get out of a hookah session, give it a shot.

[Desroth 145]

Mizo Mint is the bomb.  Their strawberry is really great too.  I like a 50/50 mix of the two.

 

AF is NOT a bad brand.  It's not "cheap tobacco."  Honestly, it's more "authentic" than Haze or Fumari, if that's what you're looking for.  In this industry, price does not necessarily justify quality.  Some crazy expensive shishas have come out that are just crap, and Nak is still, IMO, one of the best, and it's the cheapest out there.  But try out other stuff, and, again, don't worry about piling on heat - work on getting a good quality smoke instead.

 

Also, the "traditional" style of smoking tobacco without foil is a roux.  There's no such thing, just people trying to be macho.  One of Paul's videos goes on about this topic (I believe it's either his video on SCAB or on Zaghloul/black tobacco).  But, again, if that's what you want to get out of a hookah session, give it a shot.

I never meant to imply that AF was bad, in fact it is my favorite brand to smoke when it is fresh. I was merely saying that the stores around me most times have very old AF on their shelves while Starbuzz and Fumari fly off their shelves like crazy in my area. AF Mint and Orange Mint are my go to flavors for when I want to kick back and relax with a nice session, and my Nak DA is for when I want a good buzz. It is all a matter of ensuring I am getting a product that is not near or over its expiration date on a more consistent basis.

[dd0723 1,970]

Nakhla is awesome but I also enjoy more of a traditional smoke. That's not to say that modern tobacco is not good, but people tend to think that Nakhla is not as good just because is cheaper when that's not the case.

[TheEightyFour 1,199]

Try ordering online.  You'll be able to get a much wider set of options, and don't have to live at the mercy of what the local store has on the shelf.